In this dialogue Michael Zimmerman, a transmitted Zen Sensei and former Chief Justice in Utah, and Marc Gafni explore the right relationship between ethics and enlightenment.Usually two camps present themselves: those concerned with ethics and those with enlightenment. And they rarely seem to understand each other.

In this dialogue, Marc Gafni and Michael Zimmerman, emerging from the Kabbalistic and Zen traditions respectively, look for a higher integration of these two primary goals of human endeavor – ethics and enlightenment.

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