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Watch and listen to this 5-minute video, the ninth part of a 10-part dialogue with Ervin Laszlo and Marc Gafni in Tuscany on the topic of Evolutionary Love–envisioning a new Renaissance that will take us to the future. Watch previous posts from this series;

Enjoy the ninth part of the dialogue here:


Dr. Marc Gafni: So Ervin, you mentioned prayer, so I think prayer is an important conversation, because we hear so much about meditation, and meditation is a critical practice. I practice meditation. It’s a beautiful practice that allows you to move beyond your separate self, and access your location in this larger context of ultimate ground of being Buddha nature, in Kabbalah we call it Ayin.

Prayer I a different practice. Prayer is your access what we just called the personal face of the cosmos. If ervin is personal, ervin’s personal-ness represents this larger personal-ness. If I say i was at Ervin László’s house, and he was really impersonal, which I would never say, it was actually the opposite, but that wouldn’t be a compliment. Wouldn’t say he was impersonal. I would be like, I couldn’t quite find his divinity. When I say, well, I felt so personally welcomed, and so at home, what I mean is, I located the divine essence space that received me, so prayer is, in some sense, turning to the personal face of essence, and creating the personal relationship with the interior personal essence that animates the entire system.

And when I begin to understand prayer that way, and not as a mythological cosmic vending machine, put in a quarter and get Ankara prayer, then we can actually begin to reclaim prayer, which is what I think you were pointing to. And I noticed that you actually, in all of your lists of practices, you always mention prayer.

Dr. Ervin László: Prayer, to me, just in my experience, is a way to meditate, because I’m not sharing that belief, let’s say, in a system, which says that through prayer I’m addressing one particular personality, to whom I am praying. I’m not praying to anybody. What I’m doing, I suppose I’m meditating, maybe I’m not praying. I feel that I’m entering into a deeper field, and prayer, I think, to other people maybe, and you would know much more about this, may be addressing to whom you pray.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Are you willing to play with me on this for a second? Okay, let’s play. So, prayer to a personality is the old prayer, ’cause that’s not the prayer I’m talking about. Let me try and talk about it differently. So, if I say, let’s see if we can kind of … we’ll do this spontaneously, if I say, I hear Professor László talking, so I hear you, so question is, how do I hear you? So I hear you through my ears, but not really through my ears. My ears are just the exterior expression of my intelligence, hears you, so now I think I’m pretty intelligent, but I’m not the most intelligent person in Italy, because you live here, and then there’s a larger intelligence of all of Europe, and then there’s the intelligence of the whole world.

So if I hear you through my intelligence, so my intelligence participates in the larger intelligence of reality, it’s inseparable from that intelligence. I’m part of a larger intelligence, so in that sense I mean prayer. So, if ervin speaks, and Marc hears Ervin, through his intelligence, then obviously the intelligence of reality hears ervin. That’s what I mean by prayer.

Dr. Ervin László: I’m perfectly happy to pray to the cosmic consciousness that infuses all of reality.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Right, but it’s different than meditation, because meditation I’m merging with it, and prayer is I’m actually feeling that that personal quality isn’t only in ervin, the personal quality in Ervin reflects the personal quality of reality, and the reason this is so important, my friend, is because without this, we have this cultural divide. There’s the people that pray, and the fundamentalist world has so much trouble with the liberal world, because the liberal doesn’t pray. And the fundamentalist world, of course, has exiled prayer to a personality, gut they have an intuition that’s right. And the intuition is, that there’s a personal quality of the cosmos.

And actually, everything you write about indicates that personal quality, so I’m gonna kind of suggest that we actually make that quality visible, not as personality, but as the personal essence of Ervin, and that intelligence participates in the larger personal quality of cosmos. We don’t exile personal to separate self.

Dr. Ervin László: Okay, I certainly agree with that. In that sense, I am praying. I can’t pray if it’s not in the personal level. It’s the person is the cosmos.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Right, the person and cosmos meet in some way, so that’s one … that just allows us to kind of heal a cultural divide, the kind of exile of prayer to this very narrow place.

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