In this dialogue Dr. Marc Gafni and Megwyn take us into the realm of Skype Calls.

How can you make your Skype Call more intimate?

They unpack 6 principles, possibilities that can help us to really be on the inside with each other.

Listen to the Audio and read the transcript below:



Marc: Hello, Megwyn. Marc Gafni here. How are you, beloved?

Megwyn: I’m doing great. How are you?

Marc: Awesome. I am delighted to be here with you.

We are in the world of, friends, digital intimacy. Megwyn is the Director of Digital Intimacy within the Center for Integral Wisdom, and we are working together intimately on this Digital Intimacy Project which is about turning the virtue of faith into virtue of destiny. Instead of complaining about the Web, why it’s alienating, why it’s problematic, why it’s a pain in the ass, why don’t we actually enter into the depth of the Web and view it as an invitation to heightened intimacy?

So that’s our frame for our conversation. Before we get into our specific topic, Megwyn, do you want to add anything or say anything about our general digital intimacy frame, beloved?

Megwyn: I am very excited to explore sharing these frames because I think it’s going to help insight people to connecting with others through the webcam technology and getting them to actually share and be more creative with their intimacy, which is definitely something that has happened with my life. So I’m super excited to explore this today.

Marc: Awesome. So our specific topic for today is Skype. We’re going to take the example of Skype and see how does actually digital intimacy work within the frame of Skype, within the world of Skype. Usually, people complain about Skype. There are a million problems. If you Google Skype, you will see all of the problems with Skype.

When we’re talking about Skype, we’re not talking about only that particular company but all of the video technologies; when you talk to someone, as Megwyn said, via a webcam. It’s not face to face. You can’t really touch the person. It’s so problematic. I’d rather be in the room with them. It’s so difficult. It’s so disorienting. It’s so alienating. A million things.

What Megwyn and I want to suggest is that actually, you can actually enter into the intimacy of Skype in this beautiful way which actually invites you to heightened intimacy. So we’re going to go into what we call the laws of Skype.

So Megwyn, give us the first law of Skype. Take it away, beloved.

Megwyn: Well, the first law of Skype is that you are in a frame which actually allows you to focus. You don’t have to be focusing on everything else that’s around you. You’re not distracted by the physical person in front of you. You get to actually just experience that frame, and that allows you to focus your attention, your energy on that person even more.

Marc: That’s great. That’s fantastic. Maybe you’ll give us the first couple, but I’ll comment on the first two. But let me just comment on the first one right now.

This is great. Everyone get that? You’re focused in a frame. So if I’m now looking at Megwyn right now, I see her face in a frame so I can focus on her in a way that I don’t usually. Because usually, there are all these other distractions in the space; and by actually placing the person’s face in a frame, it would actually create a deeper sense of face to face than you actually would otherwise.

So being focused in a frame is the first principle which allows for heighted intimacy. So that’s number one. That’s principle one. You’re frame focused, the frame focus of Skype which you turn into this wildly, beautiful, intimate advantage. I can look at you and see you and get deep into your eyes, and we’re not distracted by anything, and there we are, right? Awesome.

Okay, number two coming at us. Megwyn White, give us number two, sister.

Megwyn: Well, number two is one of my favorites. Number two is that you can look at this and take the whole frame focus idea into a stage idea. So the idea that whatever you’re experiencing inside of the Skype realm is actually a virtual stage.

That stage, just like any real stage, has a down stage, which is let’s say closer to the audience, that which is closer to the viewer. You have also the up stage, which would be me just leaning back. Even just three inches is actually going to make a big difference in the perspective of the viewer.

Then you have the entrances and the exits. You got this opportunity to pop in from the right or pop out from the left, and you can play inside of this stage. So that is one of my absolute most favorite principles is that Skype offers you the opportunity to express yourself in a stage.

Marc: Beautiful. That’s the next principle, which is we’re going to call this the stage principle of Skype.

Now, let’s look at a couple of other key principles here, so let me add a couple. So we’ve got the frame focus. We’ve got the stage where you actually set up. As Megwyn says, you set up your area and you kind of play with the stage that you’re setting up. Usually, the surroundings are just the surroundings, but here you’ve got an opportunity to invite the stage. That I would say as an advanced. That’s an advanced principle. You don’t need to that for every Skype call. That’s for advanced Skype calls.

Three, and this is a big one, you can shift perspectives in a way that you can’t in a normal conversation. What does that mean? You can actually take the perspective of the other person. So while I’m talking to Megwyn in Skype right now, I can look at the bottom right of my screen and I can actually see myself, and I see that’s how Megwyn sees Marc in this moment.

So I’m actually switching perspectives, and I’m taking Megwyn’s perspective, which, of course, I can’t do in a normal conversation. In a normal conversation, I’m looking right at Megwyn, but I can’t actually see what Megwyn sees. And Skype paradoxically allows me to switch perspectives and I can now see what Megwyn sees. I can see through her eyes. That’s a big one. That’s a big one, friends. So that’s number three.

Now, let me add four, and four is also really big, four would be that you can access what the great traditions called subtle energy. For example, in Vedanta, in the great Hindu tradition, they talk about gross, subtle and causal energy. Subtle energy is the feeling. When you feel excited or aroused, that’s subtle energy. It expresses itself also in your neurotransmitters, but it also is subtle. The feeling of love is subtle energy. The energetic feeling of a person, the sense of a person, that’s all the subtle energy.

Now, a lot of that gets lost in a room when you’re physically embodied. Paradoxically, when you actually enter into Skype, you can actually enter into the subtle energy and actually feel what another person feels in a very, very unique way. You can actually feel their feeling. You can actually touch their feeling. You can actually experience their feeling. It actually has a direct effect on your mind, on your heart and on your body.

So actually, what Skype allows you to do is it allows you to enter the subtle energy and actually feel what the other person is feeling because the body in its normal sense is out of the way which then invites the body in a deeper and higher sense. So that’s the subtle energy that you can actually access on Skype in a way that’s harder to access in the same way. You enter into the world of the subtle in the world of Skype. Beautiful. That opens up another possibility.

So that would be three and four. Okay, so take us to five, love.

Megwyn: Five is playing with the moving from face to voice and from voice to face. So perhaps you’re talking to a lover and perhaps your lover is not seen; but you’re seen, and you can explore having your lover guide you through let’s say some kind of love ritual. It adds this beautiful mysterious magnetic quality to your conversations, and it definitely heightens intimacy in many, many ways.

Marc: Wow! So this is a really important principle, principle five, and you can actually move. In a normal conversation, you can’t put your hand over your face and say, “Oop! Hey, Meg, I’m not looking anymore.” That’s a little weird. You just can’t do that. You’re actually having a conversation. You can’t just hide your face and say, “Hey, sorry,” and you’re in a job interview. “Sorry, I don’t want to see you anymore. Bye!” That’s very weird. That is socially inappropriate behavior even for those people.

But on Skype, what you can do is you can naturally move. You see each other. And then all of a sudden, you just hear the voice, and you now switch mediums.

Now, what you can do is you can play on both sides. You can have one person with face and the other voice, or you can have both voice or you can have both face. So this allows a range of possibility that simply is not available in a normal conversation. So that would be number five. It’s the range of possibility which moves between face and voice. Again, you can have face to face, you can have voice to voice, or you can have voice to face with either person’s voice or face. That allows an entire range of possibility.

Let me now add six, Megwyn. Six would be what I can do right now is I can say something like — I could say anything I want, right? I can say something to you and I can actually communicate to you via — now I can emphasize something I’m saying, or I can be disruptive. I can be completely different than the major strain of our conversation. So it allows for this kind of wild play. We can be having this really straight conversation, and then all of a sudden I can say something completely different. What do you think of that?

Megwyn: I love that idea. It goes back to just, again, adding all sorts of fun surprises.

Marc: Right. You just don’t know what’s going to happen.

Megwyn: You just don’t know what’s going to happen.

Even the sound of the typing is fun as well. I notice that when I’m on Skype. I just love hearing sort of that punctuated sound. It just even adds another quality.

Marc: Right. And you can move through different energies, and what actually happens is you create this other kind of modality which is completely and utterly unavailable. It’s just not available. Because normally, what do you do? Normally, you only — only — have a conversation which is voice to voice or face to voice. Now, all of a sudden, you allow for a completely other modality of conversation. That’s pretty wild.

Megwyn: That’s very, very wild. It’s kind of like getting to express with your subconscious. You could perhaps create a context for it. Let’s say you are going to say only the things that you’re allowed to say with the voice but all of the subtle secret desires you get to say with the typing pad.

Marc: Nice, right? Beautiful. Completely utterly beautiful.

Now, here is the deal. This allows for an entirely new realm to play. You can use Skype to accentuate that what you’re saying. You can use the writing to accentuate that what you’re saying in your conversation; or, as Megwyn said, you can actually play and have a whole other level of conversation taking place through your writing.

So again, in this principle six, you’ve got a whole other realm that’s going on here, which allows you to create this whole other way of conversing, which is completely unavailable in normal conversation.

Let’s just do a little review. So number one, give us number one. Hit us with number one.

Megwyn: Number one is frame focus. You’re in a frame and it allows you to focus.

Marc: Awesome. Okay, good. Now, what would number two be?

Megwyn: Number two is that Skype is like a stage.

Marc: Right, it’s like a stage, which means you’ve got the depth of the stage, you’ve got the opening to the stage, and you can use it as a stage. Okay, good.

Three would be that you can actually access subtle energy. You can actually access subtle energy in a real way, in a way that you can’t actually access in a normal conversation. You enter into the realm of the subtle and you actually can begin to feel the other person in a different way emotionally, spiritually, psychologically. Even physically you can feel the other person. So that would be number three.

Number four would be you can actually switch perspectives. You can actually see what the other person sees. So if you look at your small screen on the right, you can actually see what the other person is actually looking at and how that is impacting them in that moment. So that would be number four.

Number five, Megwyn, the voice…

Megwyn: Five is move from face to voice and then from voice to face, so making it a play to explore both of those facets, the face and voice.

Marc: Yeah, beautiful. Number six is you can actually deploy writing in a real way, in a new way, in a beautiful way, which was completely unavailable before. You can actually deploy writing and actually make available through writing something completely different, a different line. That writing could be your subconscious or it could be highlighting something that you’ve already said.

So those would be the six laws of Skype which give you an entirely different realm of communication. All of a sudden, what have we done? We’ve taken Skype from this problematic zone to this new and gorgeous zone which gives you access to other complete other worlds that you never could have accessed before. Wow, that’s exciting.

Megwyn: Wow! Yeah, that’s very exciting.

I just want to say that before I learned these particular frames or started exploring them in my own life, I also experienced Skype as a very flat perspective. Once I started deploying these particular frames, it was almost like Alice going through the looking-glass.

So I really want to invite the viewers to play with these. Play with one principle at a time even. Don’t try to do all of them at once. Just explore one of these principles in your next Skype conversation and see what happens.

Marc: Awesome! Completely and utterly beautiful! What a delight!

Thank you, everyone. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the world of digital intimacy.