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Watch and listen to this 9-minute video, the tenth part of a 10-part dialogue with Ervin Laszlo and Marc Gafni in Tuscany on the topic of Evolutionary Love–envisioning a new Renaissance that will take us to the future. Watch previous posts from this series;

Transcript

Dr. Marc Gafni: So let’s go to the next topic, which is death, life and death. I know that you’re working on a book now on kind of the nature of immortality. So once we talk about unique self, as not social, psychological, or cultural conditioning, once we talk about uniqueness as a quality of essence, so it begins to make sense that a quality of essence can’t disappear. So share with us, how does that begin to play in your studies. If it was just true self, you would disappear back into the one. If there’s unique self, then the notion of immortality begins to make sense, not as egoic immortality, not as separate self immortality, but as this unique quality that lives on, and what you’ve called … you’ve rediscovered and reintroduced into thought, this Akashic record.

Dr. Ervin László: The key to it is, I think how you consider your mind, your consciousness, and you can say yourself. I’m using the term consciousness in this part. And I suggested earlier in our dialog, that our mind, our consciousness, is not in space time. It’s on a different level of reality, it’s on a deeper level. It’s connected with the rest. And it’s an expression in space time, like now there’s a scientific theory in quantum physics which says, the whole 3D, three dimensional universe is a projection of 2D codes beyond space time, and it sounds like a far out theory, but it explains very much how things are connected.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Understood, thank you.

Dr. Ervin László: If your consciousness is really beyond this space time level, then it means that it’s also beyond your space time body and brain. That means that when your space time body, your living brain shuts down, your consciousness doesn’t necessarily shut down. It could persist, because it doesn’t persist here on this level, it persists on another level. So in you, it gets just projected into you. It’s never actually in you, it’s in association with you. It becomes an element in you, but the consciousness is something which is beyond space time, beyond the brain. And in that case, of course, it’s like, we talked about the symphony, it’s like a symphony, that’s broadcast over the air. You can pick it up, and you can turn off your radio, or your TV set, or whatever.

The symphony doesn’t disappear. You don’t hear it anymore, and people say, of course, that’s a proof that if you turn off your brain, then consciousness disappears. It’s not a proof, because consciousness may not be limited to the brain. It appears in the brain. It’s in a very important essay that is not so much regarded, but it’s now being rediscovered, the great psychologist and philosopher, William James gave a talk in 1899, in the immortality series in Ingersoll talks on immortality. And he said there are really two theories of the relationship between brain and mind and consciousness, and one is the production theory, and the other one is the transmission.

Now the production theory is, the brain somehow creates consciousness. It generates it in the same way a turbine, if it runs, it generates electricity, you stop the turbine, the electricity stops. This is the dominant common sense, western concept. It’s a product, a byproduct of the brain. We can’t explain how that a brain neural interactions produce something, a sensation of a qualitative sensation of we call consciousness. That’s a big problem, a real big problem in consciousness. These are so called hard problem. But if our brain and body, because the whole body, I think, is involved in it, the heart is involved in it very much, only transmits consciousness, then we perceive it while our body is operating, we participate in it.

When the body dies, consciousness continues. It could conceivably become re-associated with another brain and body, you know, which is the concept of reincarnation, or rebirth. The whole idea of past lives, where we saw so much evidence that we are not limited to the single lifetime, so I think that is, I think, the key to idea of death, death is of the physical body. Consciousness is infinite.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Consciousness is infinite, and I want to … and I’m looking forward very much to this new book, and our mutual colleague, Michael Murphy, of Esalen, has spent a lot of his time in the last 15 years funding, through Esalen, the best research on reincarnation. He actually funded the chair of Ian Stevens, at University of Virginia, went to a lot of the collection. Michael said to me that, yeah, the classic work, he said that he had once said in public that he was agnostic on reincarnation, and he went home and he felt sleazy, because he was unwilling to admit it publicly, and he made a decision 15 years ago that it was actually immoral for him not to claim what he actually knows, based on all the research, that actually the best explanation of reincarnation, really the only one that he sees, and Michael’s a hardcore rationalist, is the survival of consciousness beyond the body.

And we have a wealth of empirical information. In your book on this, I’m sure will be an important watershed, in kind of bringing and integrating and up-leveling this conversation, and if we can bring the two things together, as long as we had a notion of enlightenment being merging into the one, then there was no real reason to assume the immortality of the unique individual. The second you actually realize the irreducible uniqueness, again, not as personality, not as social, psychological, and cultural conditioning, but there’s actually a unique essence, which is Ervining in the world, then actually it makes all the sense in the world to actually think about the immortality of consciousness, which is I think why Buddhism actually reintroduced reincarnation on the side, and it’s Buddhism had a strong sense of oneness, and yet reincarnation, what’s reincarnating if you’re only part of the one, well, so the essential structure of unique consciousness, and there’s more and more and more writing on that. When is your book gonna be available, when are we gonna get to see it?

Dr. Ervin László: Well, I have to write it first. I have a draft of it now. I think it’ll be 2015-

Dr. Marc Gafni: So we’re gonna wait for that book. Well that’s a good place to end, we’re waiting for one of Professor László’s upcoming books, on the immortality of the soul. I recommend it, and I want to recommend again, everyone, just go to Amazon, and to get The Self Actualizing Cosmos. This is actually a great place, it’s a good access point, i think, for all of Ervin’s work, to the extent I’ve read four or five books. There’s many, many more, but this is a great beginning, I think, to kind of enter into the work.

Dr. Ervin László: But let me add, you can follow this up with a book that don’t have to wait until I finish the other one, which is coming out in October, so by the time perhaps you play this, by the time it will have been out, which is called “The Immortal Mind”.

Dr. Marc Gafni: The Immortal Mind.

Dr. Ervin László: The Continuity of Consciousness Beyond the Brain, that’s what the subtitle is.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Oh, so you already a backup, fantastic.

Dr. Ervin László: Yes, with a lot of lot of case studies, of the 180 pages or so, so 120 are case studies.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Okay, so this is The Immortal Mind: The Continuity of Consciousness Beyond the Brain, and I’m sure we’ll have a band on the bottom of this screen by the time this actually goes public, with the Amazon place to go on Amazon and to actually find the book, and I just want to say in conclusion, my delight in actually meeting Ervin about two years ago, doing a dialog or two, two dialogs actually, and then speaking a number of times on the phone, and then coming here in person, is I’ve had the privilege of actually falling in love with this unique genius mind, with this gorgeous, gorgeous human expression of outrageous brilliance, outrageous love, that’s making such a stunning contribution to the evolution of consciousness, that it’s been just, every moment a delight, and I want to thank you.

Dr. Ervin László: I can’t match your eloquence, but I can match your feeling. I feel just the same way about meeting you, and now getting to know you in person.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Thank you so much, what a delight, what a delight. Thank you everyone for being with us. Thank you.



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