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Watch and listen to this 8-minute video, the eighth part of a 10-part dialogue with Ervin Laszlo and Marc Gafni in Tuscany on the topic of Evolutionary Love–envisioning a new Renaissance that will take us to the future. Watch previous posts from this series;

Enjoy the eighth part of the dialogue here:

Transcript

Dr. Ervin László: Well you, in a way, you talk about also, but what is it? What is it that is making us enjoy what we call art, or music, or dance, or song, whatever, what is it? It’s an experience. It’s experience of sharing of oneness. You mentioned moment ago, you said, well, forgive me, but I look … pay attention, even though I’m closing my eyes. Did you notice that great conductors, and I had a privilege of knowing quite a few, but the conductors close their eyes most of the time. They open them a little bit, just to make sure that they’re there in the right place, and everybody’s listening, but because they are entirely inside their own experience. And they communicate that way.

Now, the difference between a poor orchestra and a great orchestra, is a poor orchestra is just plays the score and looks at the conductor as to say what does he say. In a great orchestra, the members become one, and they start to become one with the conductor, and they start feeling what the conductor does. It’s an instrument, it’s becoming one. It’s on a much higher level than driving a car, but it’s there, it’s the same thing. To me, I could feel becoming one with a piano, with an instrument, and then with the people who are work, who are playing music with me. And the people who are listening, because they are not passive listeners. Passive listeners are no good, people who are co-creating, who enter into this.

So, all of this is really that through our senses, we don’t need to just pick up on their ears, but we can use our sense as instrument to go deeper down into ourselves, where we perceive our oneness, our co-evolution, our co-creation, let me say, of other people, with other people. And that way, I think, that instrumentality, that to me is the aesthetic experience. I got it mostly through music. You can get it through dance. I would love to know how to dance. I was never very good at dancing, but when I did a little bit of it, I was felt like I moved together with somebody else, you’re becoming really part of that person. And whatever your way that you can enjoy the world around you, is that sense of that sense of significantly one, becoming significantly one with the other.

That, to me is the ecstatic experience, a really deep part of my life, and in a way I’m searching for that, also in my writing, in my talking. If I’m on the right track, I feel sort of one with the ideas, and if I give a talk some this, and I have to think of now, I have to talk about this, talk about that, that is artificial, it falls apart. If you feel that you can say something, and the other person resonates with what I think we are doing here also, it’s like that, then you’re beginning to feel like you’re entering into a common space. And that is just another form of evolutionary love.

Dr. Marc Gafni: Oh, that’s gorgeous. So you don’t disappear into the one, you appear as the one. That’s the location of the paradox that we’re pointing to here, and the reason I keep coming back to it, Ervin, is because I’ve found, and I don’t know what your experience is, is that the reason people reject the notion of oneness, because they’re afraid they’re going to disappear. There’s an enormous fear, and I think we have to, with great respect, hold enlightenment teachers responsible, of which I’ve been one of for many years, so I hold myself responsible, for teaching enlightenment improperly. We’ve always taught enlightenment as disappearing into the one. You become true self, and then there’s an intuitive rejection by the main stream, which says what about me, then the enlightenment teacher says, well that’s just your ego.

It’s not just your ego. There’s something deeper than the egoic self, which is the unique expression of oneness. You appear as the one, and let me stay with the symphony image. A number of years ago, someone from Booz Allen, that is a consulting firm in America, came into a seminar where I happened to be attending, and they played a symphony, a Beethoven symphony, and then they played the symphony again and they took out one instrument, and I can’t quite remember the instrument right now, but you actually could hear this one instrument, which was by itself seemingly irrelevant. Without that instrument the assembly could actually feel the difference.

So you actually realize, who are you, and that’s the great question, who are you, you are an instrument in the symphony, and without you, the symphony sounds different. If I would say it in the 16th century in Italy, Decapolis said, God needs your service. You’re actually needed by all that is. That’s a stunning realization, that I actually have a unique gift to give, a unique life to live, that’s irreducibly needed by all that is, and that’s not a kind of psychological idea, that’s actually the nature of reality is, you’ve described it in Self Actualizing Cosmos, and so many other books is, you’re a part, which is using your language, you’re a part that’s irreducibly needed by the whole. It’s utterly independent, and yet part of the whole at the same time. And without your part in this, the whole becomes a heap.

Dr. Ervin László: That’s the important difference, you just said it. A heap is more or less casual assembly of different elements. A whole is an integration of different elements. A whole is not a whole if a part is missing, it’s not longer a whole.

Dr. Marc Gafni: A whole is not a whole if a part’s missing.

Dr. Ervin László: No, it’s something that is … it’s something else, it’s a part of a whole, it’s a maybe on a way to a whole. It’s a degeneration of a whole, but a whole is that which integrates all its parts. A great work of art, and I say whatever you are sensitive to, it can be a great poem, it can be music, it can be whatever other form of art or literature, is one where you can’t take any element of it, as you just mentioned. To me, a great work of art, and here the prototype, the paradigm case for that is all the compositions of Mozart, is such that you can not simply change it. There was a famous dialog, I think in the film Amadeus, where the prince who was sponsoring Mozart said to Mozart, there are too many notes in that piece. He was just trying to be clever.

And Mozart said, no, no, there aren’t too many. He also said, there also aren’t too few, there are just enough. There are just as many as there have to be. And you have that sense when you hear a piece of music that is that level of wholeness, the perfectionist of a Mozart, gut you can have it in the Beatles. You can have it in many other ways, that every part has to play its role. If it’s not there, it’s not there, it disappear anymore. It benefits not there, it’s having cancer.

Dr. Marc Gafni: It’s having cancer, so symphony is really the primary image that’s emerging from today’s dialog, is unending symphony, Ervin’s next, next book. I think it’s after the next one, what we call a unique self symphony, which is one expression of the unending symphony. It’s a self organizing universe, in which the organizing principle is uniqueness.


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