Watch this fifth in a series of 10, beautiful videos, with Barbara Marx Hubbard and Marc Gafni:
Marc: Welcome everyone. We are here in week five.
So what we’re going to do is last week the topic of last week was evolutionary love which is really a key component in getting the fact that the Universe is a love story which is driving the process is evolutionary love. Sometimes it’s called the fifth force of the Universe beyond the electromagnetic, the gravitational, the strong, and the weak. The fifth force of the Universe, the fifth force which explains why the Universe didn’t stop at hydrogen. Why didn’t it stop at basal elements? Why didn’t it stop at planets? Why didn’t it stop at amoebas? Why didn’t it stop at early plants? What’s driving the process forward?
Alfred North Whitehead one of our favorite philosophers of Barbara and I describes reality and he says one of the key properties of reality is what he calls the creative advance of novelty meaning love is driving the process forward. Evolutionary love is driving the process forward and evolutionary love is creating love is creative, it’s creating more and more love. So it means it creates more and more complex organisms which means there’s much more interconnectivity.
A human being has fifty-trillion cells gorgeously loving each other; each knowing what to do living in this big huge love community. That’s what a human being is. So that is a very high level of love which doesn’t exist in an amoeba. What drives the process from an amoeba to a human being? Love. Right? Love drives the process. What’s driving the process? Evolutionary love. That’s what we talked about last week.
Now we’ve gotten like three or four really important questions. And Barbara, I’m going to put the first one to you from people who have been listening and basically what people are saying is we are loving this and so we’re totally appreciating the huge amount of response, so thank you, thank you, thank you. And we’re delighted by that and we interact with that and it just you know makes us more alive and more in love. And we want to really respond to some of the questions.
So here’s question one, Barbara that you and I looked at when it came in which is Barbara you said that the Universe being a love story means that evolution itself has values. So what of that to love, what are those values? Explain a little more.
Barbara: Well if the Universe goes from the quarks to the electrons to the protons to the amoebas all the way on up to you and me sitting here which is took 13.8 billion years to produce this event of us sitting here. The value that I would hold is the value of consciousness, of freedom, of the ability to love and even deeper than that the ability to create. If this whole process of evolution could be called a creative endeavor of the highest genius and I feel myself in my own little impulse to create…
Marc: Not so little, but ok.
Barbara: To actually be drawing from the creative intention of the Universe for billions of years going to higher order, I begin to feel that my intention which might seem totally insignificant as a little person in the billions of humans, no. I’m feeling because it’s drawing from that impulse in evolution itself. My intention, your intention, everybody’s intention is drawing from the creative intention of the Universe, particularly if it’s going toward higher consciousness, greater freedom, more complex order.
Now if it’s going towards control, domination, and destruction, it’s actually there’s a lot of destruction in the Universe and I’d like to bring that up to make this distinction. Billions of species are extinct before we got here. The Universe as a love story is not kind in the sense that it’s extremely selective as to what’s capable of evolving to a higher consciousness and freedom. And what is so fascinating to me is that right now as we’re discovering the trajectory of love, we’re also discovering we could destroy ourselves as a species along with many other species we’re already destroying.
So the quality of love actually is a quality for survival because if we don’t learn this now, if we don’t learn that the direction of evolution is to greater consciousness, freedom, and order we could be one of those species that’s becoming extinct. The only difference is we know it.
Marc: Ok so this is all so important so let’s go step at a time. So we can kind of swallow this step at a time, ok? So let’s unpack here together, ok?
So the first thing that we’re saying and that you said so beautifully, Barbara, is before we get to the extinction which is a whole other conversation, so let’s just start with the beginning. So the beginning is the question that came in was what did you mean when you said that evolution has values that are awakening in us?
So what that means you explained now so beautifully and Barbara and I are completely aligned in this. So it doesn’t matter who’s talking. We’re in the same conversation.
What that means is that the value of consciousness, becoming aware, the intention. I have intention. I want to do something with my life. The value of creativity, the value of being more loving, the value of being nurturing. All those value of having more good, more truth, more beauty. All the values that we hold are not just the values of Marc, little small-self Marc or the ballads of small self Barbara as separate selves disconnected from everything but those values are inherent in reality itself. Reality is not neutral.
Barbara: That’s a key point.
Marc: Right? Reality is not neutral, so reality is creative. That’s the first fact. The first fact we know about reality is it’s creative. It’s not static eternal. Reality is always creating newness and that newness always has more love in it. It’s more interconnected internally, it’s more capable of loving and caring for externally. An amoeba to a dog. I keep coming back to that example just because it’s an easy way to get it to make it concrete.
So the values of reality, the move towards more caring, more love, more concern, more embrace, more interconnectivity, more union are built into the structure of reality itself. Reality’s driven by the fifth force of reality, evolutionary love. And here’s the key point you make Barbara which is like the key point of ten key points.
The first key point you make is that those values then awaken in us. [0:08:00]
So a quark, right? A quark has some and basically in thought today a quark has some now here’s a really fancy word don’t get caught on it, prehension. Meaning a quark has some sense of an interior but tis’ barely glimmering. A quark is mostly automatic, mostly unconscious, mostly instinctive. That’s just it’s moving. There’s what we call blind forces.
Now there’s an overall intelligence within the process but a rock you don’t give someone a devastating punishment for breaking a rock. Because a rock doesn’t have that level of interior depth to be murdered. You can murder a human being. You can’t murder a rock. Why? Because a human being has more interiority. It has more inside depth. It as it has more feeling. It has more consciousness than a rock. So that’s what we mean by there’s more conscious, meaning there’s more interiority.
So when quarks come together and atoms come together, it’s unconscious to a large extent; virtually almost totally unconscious. So the value of Eros, of love, of coming together the allurement, the attraction that draws the physical properties together and ultimately that awakens as a cell and then draws cells together to create higher and higher forms of life is there’s a larger and intelligence moving it, but within every specific expression along the way, along the evolutionary chain, mitosis, myosis, cells splitting, plants evolving but it’s all happening according to the interior structure.
A plant doesn’t say let me evolve today. It’s an interior let’s use this as just a general word now. Instinctive. I mean it’s not individual, it’s this overall larger intelligence running the whole process. But those values of coming together of mutuality, of recognition, of union, of love and of embrace, those come awake in Barbara and Marc in which we chose to love.
Barbara: Well we’re able to stand outside it just enough to see it.
Marc: Just enough to see it.
Barbara: And when we see it we be it if I may say so.
Marc: Right. We choose to be it.
Barbara: We choose to be it and we’re instinctively I would say in our better nature. Our better nature instinctively goes towards empathy. It goes towards love, it goes towards caring. Even though we behave terribly there is a very deep instinctive behavior as the newborn baby in the mother’s arms.
Marc: But we choose. We have the choice, yes. Tell me if my and is right to make sure we’re saying the same thing. And we get to choose that instinct.
Barbara: We get to choose the instinct and we feel that the process is on the side of that choice. And it’s not a choice against the nature of reality which is the…
Marc: This is a big deal, right?
Barbara: It’s a choice on behalf of the nature of reality.
Marc: We’re aligning with reality.
Barbara: It’s toward greater love. Now that makes a huge difference.
Marc: Everyone getting this? This is key.
Barbara: How I feel about my choices because if somebody says to me the nature of reality is thoughtless and destructive and everything goes extinct, then my choice is feel irrelevant or impossible. But if I know choices are in the direction it seems to have been for billions of years towards greater intelligence, greater connectivity, greater love, I am so empowered in what I would consider to be the deep values of my own nature.
Marc: This is ok now we’ve hit it. Does everyone get this now? This is where I think the person had said in the question that… That’s a great question and I think now you’re beginning to get what we mean here, right?
If the world’s a world which is a we call it a red tooth and claw world which is a phrase for a world which is brutally competitive, which is about competing with other people to make sure you survive and they don’t because only one person is going to survive. It’s a world which doesn’t have love at its essence. It’s a world which is just about survival and it’s a zero sum game. I survive, you don’t.
If a world is ruthless, if it’s a dog eat dog world as it’s described, then a choice for love is heroic, but almost meaningless. But if we really get that evolutionary love is driving the whole story, that the world is moving towards more and more recognition, more and more creativity, more and more union, more and more embrace, more and more care. And that begins with quarks coming together single boundary falling around them and they create an atom and atoms come together and they create operation between them and they form a molecules and molecules cooperate and they form a complex molecule in this process of attraction allurement love cooperation is driving the entire process.
And when Barbara and I come together and we say let’s put aside competition, let’s cooperate and collaborate to create this new offering of love, we’re not doing something which is weird or whacked out or even righteous. We’re just aligning with the essential nature of the Cosmos.
Barbara: And it’s interesting that all the great spiritual traditions told us that love one another. But you might say that’s a basic receptive, all of them. But it’s been very hard for us to do it en masse. But I think that by realizing that the Universe is a love story and that if we do not love we probably will not survive now because we’re so powerful that the timing for understanding that the Universe is a love story is now.
Marc: Yea, that’s beautiful.
Barbara: You know this is not just a fanciful idea. It’s probably the most essential idea right now in human history; this idea.
Marc: Yea, I mean right here right now. And let’s maybe conclude Barbara what you just said about the great traditions telling us to love each other and this will be an example of what we mean by really understanding for a minute and evolutionary reading of sacred texts.
So here’s a text that V’ahavta l’re’akha kamokha loved your neighbor as herself and then in the third century it says [Inaudible, 0:14:46]. This is a great principle of Torah which means the light. This is a great the Torah means for the light. So what does that mean?
So we used to think that there’s this commandment from a commanding God that says be a good person, love your neighbor, otherwise you’ll be punished. Well, I get that. You try and do your best because who wants to get punished by a commanding God. Maybe it feels a little better.
But the worst thing is that that text, that sacred text has a much deeper meaning, has an evolutionary meaning when it says this is the greatest principle of the light what the text means is that the essential nature of reality itself is love. Is that when I love my neighbor I’m actually aligned with the [Inaudible, 0:15:36] the essential principle. That’s what the word [Inaudible, 0:15:39] means in Hebrew, the essential principle of reality.
So we used to think this means this is the number one obedient rule you have to follow. Now it means this is the essential principle which guides all of reality from quarks all the way up to human beings. And evolutionary reading of sacred text.
Barbara: This is a beautiful way to say it and I often have thought [0:16:00] from the point of view of the source of creation or intelligence that it’s not so easy to create a Universe.
Marc: Good point.
Barbara: I mean if I were a Universal intelligence wanting to create a Universe from no thing at all and I had three seconds to get started…
Marc: If you were God, if you were the Universal intelligence…
Barbara: And I have to think of the quarks and this and this and this for billions and billions of years selecting various species out until I finally get to a species called humans who wake up to me, that is to say the divine intelligence of the Universe, to say yes I get it. Not only do you have to be an extraordinary human being like Buddha or Jesus to get this. I’m an ordinary human being saying thank you God. And I know it was a big effort to get to the creative humans who get this. So I’m just taking God’s point of view for a moment.
Marc: Absolutely I think that’s thank God. That’s wonder to actually begin to experience the dazzling wonder of this is beyond imagination.
I want to make a promise. Barbara you talked about, in the first answer you talked about the process of evolution which also has great creation and destruction in which millions, perhaps billions of species (I have to check my numbers) go extinct and that we could go extinct as well but we need to look at that in terms of a love story.
How do we call the Universe a love story when there’s both creation and destruction happening all the way up and all the way down and would dedicate a special series of podcasts within this series on that. Really two questions:
What about all the creation and destruction? Isn’t love always constructive? Question one.
Two, what about evil and suffering?
So there’s the intrinsic creation and destruction in the world process and then there’s you know things that seem to be evil and suffering that’s human made. But if the world’s a love story, then we’ve got to address both of those. We can’t have a Pollyannaish claim. Pollyannaish means the kind of I don’t know what it means, like a kind of new age, saccharine, sweet, oh it’s a love story.
We’ve got to look really carefully so we will in some of the podcasts talk about the creation and destruction; the mystery and the mystery of suffering because that’s all part of the love story.
Wow. Do you love me?
Barbara: Of course I do.
Marc: Oh my God. I love you. I love you. The Universe: A Love Story. This was podcast five, week six coming at you next week my friends. Have an awesome and loving week.