New Series with Barbara Marx Hubbard and Marc Gafni
Watch this second in a series of 10, beautiful videos, with Barbara Marx Hubbard and Marc Gafni. In this piece they discuss why the Universe really IS a Love Story and what that means. You can also read the transcript below:
Marc: Barbara, here we go.
Barbara: The Universe: A Love Story. What does that mean?
Marc: The Universe: A Love Story. What does that mean? And it is so wildly important to realize as we’ve talked about so often, but at this moment in time what we understand is that the Universe is not a fact, the Universe is a story. Now, let me just I’m going to begin by just unpacking that sentence and I’m unpacking it not to inform Barbara that she’s been living it for fifty years, but just to kind of share with each other and we’re starting this conversation from the beginning. Tabula rasa. You know? No assumptions, just kind of laying out for each other and for you piece by piece what is the most exciting information, transformative information which not only changes the way you look at the world in a fundamental way, but the way you act, the way be in the world in a fundamental way.
Every once in a while there’s some piece of information that changes the way we look at the world, but not the way we live in it. Sometimes there’s a piece of information that changes the way you live, but not the way you actually look at the world. This information changes both. So here we go. The Universe: A Love Story. The Universe is not a fact, it’s a story. So let me unpack what we mean when we say that.
As recently as Einstein, Einstein thought the Cosmos was eternal. There’s an eternal Cosmos. It’s unchanging. Five hundred, a thousand years ago it was pretty clear that not only the physical Cosmos is eternal, but the biological Cosmos is eternal.
There were people before Charles Darwin who talks about evolution, who had evolutionary theories. Evolution was in the air when Darwin wrote and there are earlier evolutionary indications in thought, but still overwhelming mainstream of thought both the sciences that existed and in the world of spirit and the world of literature, the world of art assumed as an absolute given that the world was in eternal. The nature of the world was eternal; both the physical world and the life world. Do you get what we mean by that? The physical world is rocks and stones and planets and galaxies. By the biological world we mean anything that has life from amoeba to human beings. So the assumption was these are just facts. These exist.
Now the nature of the universe was it’s a given, it’s a fact, it’s not going anywhere, and the general understanding was that a God who lives outside the Universe decided to create it and that happened in six twenty-four hour days. Let there be a moon and there’s a moon. And we’re not going to talk about that right now, but that was just a given in reality. Along comes the evolutionary idea and evolution says the world’s not a fact, it’s a story. Meaning, the world is going somewhere. It has a direction. It has telos. Now don’t phase out on Latin words, my friends. A couple of Latin words are always fun. Telos from that has direction in the evolution means that the world started. We call it Cosmogenesis at a particular time, but it’s going somewhere. It has direction.
The world has evolved. It’s changed. The world’s gone through stages of evolution and those stages start with Cosmological evolution, right? We’ve got Cosmological evolution, planet sun stars, biological evolution life, and then cultural evolution which is the evolution of ideas, the evolution of consciousness, how do human beings think about things in the world?
So the early caveman and woman not only had tools that were different than our tools, but they thought about things differently. There wasn’t a lot of democracy for example. There wasn’t a big feminist movement. There wasn’t basic ideas of human rights, the intrinsic rights of every individual. All the ideas that we take for granted in much of the world of course didn’t exist. So ideas once the human beings came on the scene, ideas evolved. That’s cultural evolution.
Now if you track this whole story, Barbara and I are about to make a wild proposition which we think is based on the best evidence we have available today which is that this trajectory, simple word, this arrow, this direction of evolution, this evolutionary story of the changing world has a plot. There’s a plot to the story and the plot to the story is love. The story is a love story. The Universe is not a fact, it’s a story. The Universe is a love story. And in these few minutes we’re going to just fill in a little bit of what that means. So I’m going to turn now to Barbara just to begin filling that in.
Barbara: Well it was amazing to me how we discovered this. It was only in the sixties that some scientists heard the background radiation of the first explosion or flaring forth. They said it was like the first breaths of the Universe beginning. However that mystery began, and it is a total mystery, it was perfectly designed.
Marc: Right. The big bang.
Barbara: The big bang for energy, matter, and life to form. And that whisper was discovered by our scientists and they called it Cosmogenesis. The Cosmos had a Genesis and it has been evolving, it is evolving through us, and it will be evolving based on what we do. When I first heard that, I was so thrilled.
A lot of people didn’t notice it. But what I felt is that if the Universe started with a big bang and it has been evolving towards ever greater consciousness and complexity and potentiality, somehow I was in it. In other words, I must be also evolving and you’re evolving and we are evolving and the world is evolving and the doors opened up for my mind. A feeling stuck and wondering where I was going and what I was doing I got a clue from the Universe where I was going. Because apparently, from that big bang, up through billions and billions of years, the Universe had a direction and the direction you can see it from single cells to multi-cells to animals to humans to us was ever-greater awareness, ever-greater consciousness, ever-greater freedom to choose to destroy or create. And it looked to me like we are the story in person. So I began to really research this story of evolution as the story of ourselves evolving.
Marc: Beautiful, beautiful and we’re going to get back to so much of what Barbara said in future podcasts, but one of the things that we’re going to do because we’re madly loving you is we’re going to take this piece at a time and you’ll be with us for…we’ll be with you, we’ll be with each other Universe willing for a long time; at least the next year we’re going to be talking about this and every week we’re going to unfold another piece of it.
So I’m going to go back to the Genesis, to the beginning. So when we say the Universe is a love story, it’s a story that is to say it’s moving somewhere. It has a plot. Now where is it moving? So Barbara, you just said so beautifully, where’s it moving? So what do we simply know about evolution? Evolution is the movement from simple to complex.
We’ve got an amoeba. An amoeba is simple; lots of beauty and dazzling gorgeousness in amoeba. But relatively simple compared to a dog. But a dog is more complex. So the movement of evolution from an amoeba which is single celled to then multi-cellular organisms, then early plants, then more advanced plants and then early animals and then mammals up through to human beings; from neural nets to neural chords to ultimately to a frontal cortex and you don’t need to know all those words. Just detract the general movement of evolution from simple to complex.
Now if you notice, it’s not just that the movement is from simple to complex, it’s from less consciously or less overtly loving to more consciously, more overtly, more clearly, more availably, obviously loving. How do you know? Well let me say it simply. When was the last time you saw a person that had a pet amoeba? There’s not a lot of pet amoebas around. Why aren’t there pet amoebas? There aren’t pet amoebas because there’s not an easy exchange of love with amoebas. So amoebas function. They’re enormously successful from an evolutionary perspective, but you wouldn’t have a pet amoeba because there’s no exchange of love. There’s less consciousness. An amoeba’s less conscious than a dog.
Now let’s track this for a second. So the more complexity we have, the more consciousness we have. A dog is more conscious than an amoeba. Now a dog’s also more loving than an amoeba. A dog can give love. You can embrace a dog, you can do puppy love. We call it puppy love because puppies are loving and dogs are loving in a fascinating set of ways.
As a matter of fact, I had a dog for a period of time who was deeply in love. It was a female dog with the male dog next door. Both were neutered so it wasn’t for sexual reproduction. And my dog would always save the best bone for the dog next door. Two times the dog next door was attacked. My dog got involved to help that dog and my dog was wildly loving to me. Very different than a dog eat dog world, which is described by the bad readings of evolution which don’t really take good science into account.
So if you track this, let’s say it really simply. The evolution, the trajectory, the arrow of evolution is from simple to complex. Simplicity/complexity, but on the inside of complexity you always have consciousness. So it’s from less consciousness to more consciousness. A dog is more conscious than an amoeba. But the inside of the consciousness is love. The inside of consciousness is love. So the dog is more loving, more overtly and obviously choosing love than an amoeba. So the movement of evolution is the movement from simple to complex, the inside of complexity is consciousness, and the inside of consciousness is love. Now that’s pretty wild.
Barbara: There’s something that I’d like to add to that. That the complexity is consciousness. When you think about what complexity means, let’s say you have fifty trillion cells operating as you to make the complex person that you are. Now, I have fifty trillion cells. I’m not noticing…
Marc: To make the very complex person that you are.
Barbara: I’m not noticing even one of them doing this. So within this complexity is organizational genius of separate parts coming together by attraction to do specific things within each creating a new being. And so the word complexity hardly describes…
Marc: It’s so beautiful.
Barbara: Or even the word consciousness that what’s causing this complexity and consciousness is so greatly mysterious that you have to say divine intelligence of some sort is operating to create this ever-greater complexity, ever-greater consciousness, and ever-greater love because the parts that are making up our bodies have to be attracted to each other to do their part or you wouldn’t stay together for a minute. You’d just go poof. You would disappear.
Marc: Alright. This is so important. So there’s definitely…
Barbara: Love is holding all those pieces together. This is what we’re saying.
Marc: Does everyone get what Barbara said? Because this is great. So Barbara is saying that not only is the movement of evolution from an amoeba to a dog to a human being for example, more and more complex and more and more loving. A human being, being more loving than a dog and believe me, I love dogs, but human beings build hospitals. Human beings are able, at least have the capacity of course for more destruction, but they also have the capacity to stand at levels of chosen love that the animal world can’t yet stand in; building hospitals being a great example. Taking care of all who are sick; taking care of all those who are sick and helpless who are not in our immediate family. So the human being has for many evolutionary perspectives the most expanded possible circle of love.
But Barbara is adding a second thing, a second dimension of the Universe: A Love Story which is that the dog has more interior love happening in her or his essence than the amoeba because the dog is more complex. And Barbara, tell me if I’m reflecting this back correctly because it’s such a beautiful and key- when you say complexity, you don’t capture it. Complexity means this enormously dazzlingly elegant designed… designed by the interior intelligence of reality itself.
If the word divine by the way doesn’t work for you, skip it. We don’t want to get lost in word games.
It’s an intelligent Cosmos that manifests the dazzlingly intricate and gorgeous complexity of interconnectivity happening within the dog that’s much higher than interconnectivity happening in the amoeba. But then when you get to the interconnectivity happening within Barbara Marx-Hubbard, fifty trillion cells, that’s love. That’s what Barbara called attraction. There’s an attractive force happening inside that’s holding it all together in this dazzling interior Eros which is this organizing principle of a symphony which defies imagination in its unspeakable and unbearable beauty and again held together by love. And, every single part is unique. Oh my God, oh my Goddess.
Barbara: Every single cell seems to know what its part is. In other words, what its unique part to make an eye, to make an ear, to make a thumb, and every one of them is unique. Now this is such a miracle.
Marc: So there’s this mad love story taking place within us while we’re talking about love in every second.
Barbara: Maybe the cells are getting it too.
Marc: The cells are getting it for sure and we’re going to come back and talk about the cell forgetting. This is the end of our first week. We just began, but you begin to get a hint of what we mean when we say the Universe is a love story. Thank you Barbara. I love you.
Barbara: It’s a story.
Marc: Do you love me?
Barbara: I do, of course.
Marc: That’s so good. I was like going to wait to I was going to say it off camera for real. Love you all. Thank you so much. Next week. Love podcast two.